cfis : Can Open Source Dethrone Google Maps?

Comment on Can Open Source Dethrone Google Maps? by Paul Ramsey

Sat, 29 Sep 2007 23:26:06 -0600

I’m not sure why the “real test” of success is dethroning or even duplicating Google Maps. Is Lucene going to fail because it will never dethrone Google Search?

Open source is very complementary to Google Maps, because it provides the tools to add in customized functionality Google does not provide. Take the Google Maps base and API, stick your data-of-interest in PostGIS, render it with Mapserver/MapGuide, layer it on top. Manage and analyze the data in the PostGIS database with all the other open source tools (uDig, GRASS, GMT, etc).

Seems like a match made in heaven to me.

Comment on Can Open Source Dethrone Google Maps? by Charlie

Sun, 30 Sep 2007 00:32:12 -0600

Hi Paul,

Point taken on “real test.” I changed the question to “can open source recreate Google Maps” because I’m not trying to say that open source fails if it cannot.

I agree that open source geospatial software is complementary to Google Maps. But don’t forget that puts everyone at the whim of Google’s (or Yahoo’s or Microsoft’s) licensing policies. In addition, the usefulness of any open source geospatial software is completely dependent on available data.

I find these two things to be worrisome - they are outside the control of open source. Would Google or Yahoo or Microsoft or Navteq be stupid enough to endanger the ecosystems being built around their software, data and distribution services? I seriously doubt it, but there is always the chance.

Comment on Can Open Source Dethrone Google Maps? by 80n

Sun, 30 Sep 2007 06:25:28 -0600

Charlie, Yahoo! has already made it’s aerial imagery available to OSM. OSM is not really about aerial imagery, but there are some interesting experiments going on with low cost UAVs and the like if aerial imagery is so important to you.

There’s also a big project within OSM called tiles@home which is about distributed rendering. Pre-rendered images up to zoom level 17 are produced by this, and higher zooms are practical to generate on-the-fly because the data is less dense.

OpenStreetMap is not Google Maps, its new, different and will thrive in niches that are not of value to Google. There are several initiatives looking at cycle maps and navigation, pedestrian maps, navigation for blind people, eco/recycling maps and disaster zone first response mapping.

80n

Comment on Can Open Source Dethrone Google Maps? by KoS

Sun, 30 Sep 2007 18:16:49 -0600

Not sure if you have talked to the WorldWind/FEF(free earth federation) guys. They have done something similar to what you are talking about.

A few people on the open source community side of NWN put together the FEF as a non-profit. Basically, they placed a bunch of servers in someones basement to feed data into NWN.

Might want to talk to Chad and/or Bull. I’m sure they would share their ups and downs. And point you in the direction of others too.

KoS

Comment on Can Open Source Dethrone Google Maps? by Charlie

Mon, 01 Oct 2007 00:34:08 -0600

Hi 80n - thanks for the tips on Yahoo and Tiles@home. I’ve updated the post to mention them both.

As far as OpenStreetMap not being Google Maps - why not?

Comment on Can Open Source Dethrone Google Maps? by Charlie

Mon, 01 Oct 2007 00:40:19 -0600

Hey KoS - Thanks for the pointers. For people interested, here is Chad’s blog and here is Bull’s blog.

Comment on Can Open Source Dethrone Google Maps? by Chad

Mon, 01 Oct 2007 04:57:56 -0600

KoS: Actually, we are not using the cluster in the basement now.. Comcast didn’t like the bandwith use.

But there are two servers now for processing and serving imagery and we are using Internet Archive as well for storing datasets.

But KoS is right, FEF was created to 1) get imagery into the public domain 2) Get it in one location (so to speak) and 3) help with the OS side of World Wind development.

Only funding FEF works from is Adsense from worldwindcentral.com and donations from users.

Comment on Can Open Source Dethrone Google Maps? by Chad

Mon, 01 Oct 2007 05:00:39 -0600

BTW.. OpenLayers is probably what you are thinking of in relation to Google Maps.

Comment on Can Open Source Dethrone Google Maps? by Charlie

Mon, 01 Oct 2007 10:06:57 -0600

Hi Chad,

Thanks for joining in. I think OpenLayers is just one small part. You also need desktop software (QGis, Udig), software to store the data (PostGis), analyze the data, render the tiles, serve the tiles, etc. And of course the data itself and the infrastructure to host and distribute it.

Comment on Can Open Source Dethrone Google Maps? by Kos

Fri, 05 Oct 2007 11:02:57 -0600

ahh thanks Chad for the updated info. I remembered awhile back y’all did it.

I did’t know the current status, unfortunatly. I never saw posts or maybe missed them on the NWW forums giving update to the server status.

KoS

Comment on Can Open Source Dethrone Google Maps? by Rob

Fri, 05 Oct 2007 11:03:24 -0600

On the imagery side of things I think it’s primarily a political\licensing issue - and I think this will undoubtedly change in time as the benefits of the community \ crowdsourcing elements of Web 2.0 are proved of commercial value to ‘the firm’.

In addition…OSGeo has a potentially massive work force, it isn’t subject to the usual constraints of a commercial company, with this in mind, just as Google Maps was a step change for geospatial, it’s highly plausible OSGeo could be the source of the next step change for geospatial.

Comment on Can Open Source Dethrone Google Maps? by Vincent Picavet

Fri, 05 Oct 2007 11:03:44 -0600

As for aerial imagery, I don’t think it is an impossible project. If opensource folks can’t buy navteq or teleatlas data, they may become data producers, as for maps. Renting a satellite does not seem to be possible in the near future (but why not?), but using other ways of getting aerial images is taking up :

http://pictearthusa.com/

A project has been launched to gather experience, software and images, in order to build a free aerial imagery database : http://openaerialmap.org/index.php

As for now it’s not competing with navteq, digital globe or others aerial imagery producers, but one day, who knows ?

Comment on Can Open Source Dethrone Google Maps? by Charlie

Fri, 05 Oct 2007 11:03:57 -0600

Hi Rob - What I don’t see is how community \ crowdsourcing benefits an imagery company (say Digital Globe). Curious what you have in mind.

Comment on Can Open Source Dethrone Google Maps? by Charlie

Fri, 05 Oct 2007 11:04:06 -0600

Hi Vincent - Great links, perfect for the article. I’m still skeptical though since it seems like so much more work to get imagery - you have to get a UAV to start. Then again having a UAV would be lots of fun - till you crashed it!

Comment on Can Open Source Dethrone Google Maps? by Kevin

Fri, 05 Oct 2007 11:04:24 -0600

Charlie,

Great post and analysis of the issues. One thing I would add is that the legal issues associated with open data are more complex than they are with open software. For example, intellectual property rights in software are clearer than they are with respect to data, particularly spatial data. Similarly with respect to potential liability issues. It is not clear, for example, what duty a party has to update data, verify its accuracy or make sure that it is not being used for unintended purposes. In addition, some legal issues do not apply to software - such as privacy.

Trackback from The Memory Leak: Amazon as Infrastructure for OpenGeo Data? on Can Open Source Dethrone Google Maps?

Fri, 05 Oct 2007 11:12:44 -0600

Charlie Savage has a post worth reading. He says: In addition to storing the tiles, you’d need machines to store the original vector data, render the tiles and serving them on the Web. And we haven’t even talked about imagery yet, w...

Trackback from Slashgeo: Can Open Source Dethrone Google Maps? And More on Can Open Source Dethrone Google Maps?

Fri, 05 Oct 2007 11:15:55 -0600

Asks if open source dethrone Google Maps

Comment on Can Open Source Dethrone Google Maps? by Tom

Sun, 07 Oct 2007 23:21:42 -0600

Charlie,

I’m curious as to your views regarding the quote you included from Wales:

“It is broken for the same reason that proprietary software is always broken: lack of freedom, lack of community, lack of accountability, lack of transparency.”

Do you believe this? Is the source code for MapBuzz going to be available for anyone to see, use, and improve upon, and if so, when? If not, why? (My suspicion, of course, is that you don’t buy his argument that proprietary software such as what I believe you develop is broken…)

–Tom

Comment on Can Open Source Dethrone Google Maps? by nick

Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:13:37 -0600

GPS used to be expensive, is now reasonably cheap, and will be cheaper still in the future.

Some people are using small balloons, or remote-controlled model planes, to lift digital cameras into the sky. Is this option cheap enough for a volunteer mapper?

Comment on Can Open Source Dethrone Google Maps? by Tom

Tue, 09 Oct 2007 19:02:22 -0600

Good question. When I started writing up my thoughts, I realized it was long enough that I should just write another post.

As far as MapBuzz, my belief is that its value is in its community, content and ease of use and not in its software. Which I think it true for most websites. If someone gave you all the source code to Facebook, what could you actually do with it? Could you replicate its success? I would be surprised. And that would be an easy case compared to Ebay, or Expedia, etc.

Therefore, open sourcing parts or all of MapBuzz make theoretical sense to me. However, reality is a bit tougher. For example, our client side libraries are equivalent to what Google Maps offers, and thus are quite valuable. However, in the interim an open source project called OpenLayers has emerged that also provides similar functionality. Looking back, we should have open sourced our client libraries. But we didn’t, and now I think that opportunity has passed.

As far as data, we’ll do a creative commons license, so that is fairly open.

And as far as server software, should we open source that? The only similar example I can think of is OpenStreetMap - where the software is open source but there is an organization hosting it on the web. Would it be valuable to people? What do you think?

Comment on Can Open Source Dethrone Google Maps? by Nick

Tue, 09 Oct 2007 19:03:48 -0600

Agreed on the GPS devices. As far as small balloons and model planes - can that scale in the same way as everyone having a GPS? I’d guess no. What do you think?